Gil: What about the drama of life? It is an illusion, yet we live within it to the extend that it becomes true to us; the illusion becomes a reality. In that respect it is not illusion at all…
Neale: That’s right; and free will is the act of choosing what we wish to call illusion and what we wish to call real. You’re absolutely correct… It’s real enough to me. What we forget is that we have the power to make that which seems real very unreal. In a moment, you could be changing your mind about it. That’s the point I make in the book ‘When Everything Changes, Change Everything.’ You can change any reality back into illusion or you can make an illusion seem like a reality. You can go either way you want. That’s the marvellous thing about life; because it is all illusion, we can make any part of it real if we want. And we can take anything that seems real and turn it back into illusion in the same way, by just using the process in reverse. And that’s what the master understands. The master knows this. Shakespeare wrote this. Shakespeare wrote, “Nothing is evil lest thinking make it so.”
You seem to have a direct communication with God, yet do you think the knowledge from this communication is based in some ways on the traditions of the world’s religions?
[Laughs…] Yes, every page of ‘Conversations with God’ contains the knowledge and the wisdom of all the world’s religions – the best of Judaism; the best of Christianity, the best if Islam. The best of the Hindu Tradition; the best of Buddhism (which is not a religion but a philosophy). And then ‘Conversations with God’ goes beyond those religious traditions to a place where none of them have ever gone.
I’m not aware of any religion on the earth that teaches that we are one with God; that we are all one with each other, and that there is nothing else but God in different forms. Perhaps the Baha’i faith comes closest to it. But I am clear that ‘Conversations with God’ brings to humanity a revolutionary spiritual message that combines the best and the highest thoughts of all world religions and then goes beyond them.
I thought that Kabala teaches the same philosophy – that God is everywhere and in everything.
Yes, but Kabala is not a religion. It’s an interpretation of or a doctrine perhaps. But if you ask the ‘average’ Jewish person on the street, “Are you God? Is that tree God? Is Hitler God or was he?” The average Jewish person (and I know because I’ve talked to many people around the world of all religions) would probably not claim that; or they might say they don’t know. Jews like to say, “I don’t know.” My experience of Judaism is that Jews either argue or they say they don’t know; but they very seldom claim absolute knowledge of anything, which is the great part of Judaism. That’s what makes Judaism wonderful. They don’t have a pope; they don’t have anybody who says, ‘This is how it is.’ They simply sit around and discuss it forever; they discuss all the possibilities.
But the average Jewish person that I’ve met in the world would not go around stating, ‘I’m one with God’, even though the Kabala may actually say that everything is one thing, and there’s only one thing. People who embrace the Kabala actually are a subset of mainstream Judaism. It’s a whole cult if you please… In fact, many Jews don’t even know what the Kabala says. Just as many Catholics have no idea what the New Testament says. They claim to be Catholic but when you quote the New Testament to them, they’re shocked because they have actually never read it.
At one point God mentioned that you had something like 600 past lives?
647, I think was the number, but who cares?
Do you remember any past lives, and do you see yourself evolving from one to the other?
I really don’t have any memory of that, I have to tell you. It would be fun to say that I did, but I don’t.
You can learn to get in touch with it…
I suppose one could. Yes, you’re right. But why bother? Only if it brought me information that I don’t have any other way. I think that my life, however – that is, my awareness and my understanding – is the sum total of all of my lives. I do think that.
I happen to be aware that every experience of my life and of my many lives has brought me and led me to this moment. I am very aware of that; deeply aware, and I’m very grateful for that. That’s why I can’t find anything in my life that has caused me sadness – not any more. I used to but not any more. Now, I celebrate all of that, including my own misdeeds for that matter that were not very nice for others. In a strange and fascinating way, I can even celebrate those things. Not that I would ever do them again; but I celebrate even my own mistakes as stepping stones to a place of greater awareness.
I’m only sorry that I had to do it in that way and hurt people in my life. My only regret is that my steps to awareness had to include some of the things I did to you. I’m really sorry that’s how it turned out for you; and at a higher level, I realize that it’s all perfect and that you took those steps with me for reasons of your own evolutionary process. I understand all of that. It’s a very philosophical way of looking at life but I understand it.
Can you help me now? I have memories of few past lives, one was being a Roman soldier… We were not bad but we were very violent, believing in protecting our country. Now, I have the ‘understanding’ of what you say here, Neale – but I want to apply this in life. How can I do so?
Teach someone else to apply it. The fastest way to apply anything in your life is to help someone else to apply it. The fastest way to know, as a function of your life, anything in life, is to help someone else to know it. The fastest way to use any wisdom that resides in your soul is to help someone else to use it.
That is why any great spiritual teacher – Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Mohamed, Lao Tsu, the Buddha – every single one without exception was a teacher. They understood that you teach what you wish to learn. They knew that the fastest way to bring something into their experience was to carry it into the experience of another. Why? Because we are all one; because there is no other. Until we heal the rest of us, the part of us that we call ‘me’ cannot be healed.
It’s really quite simple. You can’t heal your body if you’re letting your foot go unhealed. You can’t heal the whole of your body if you let your finger be cut and bruised. So in order to heal the body whole, you must heal the body’s many parts. That is why every great teacher has expressed spiritual principles in the way they have. And that is why every great spiritual leader has been a great spiritual teacher. They understood that we are all one; and until everybody gets it, nobody gets it – not fully, not completely. The answer to your question therefore, is to turn outside of yourself and not worry how you’re going to overcome this particular challenge. Do not worry how you’re going to overcome your memories of past lives or anything else for that matter. But really, how others overcome; and when you teach others how to do it you’ll automatically be teaching yourself and you will heal the two of you. I asked God, ‘why doesn’t my life work?’ and God said to me it’s really quite simple: you think your life is about you, but your life isn’t about you. It has noting to do with you. It has to do with everyone whose life you touch. When you heal it over there, you will heal it over here.
So clear and simple…
Well, God is pretty clear. He doesn’t leave very much ambiguity…
19 Sep 2010.
Text © Gil Dekel and Neale Donald Walsch. Images © Natalie and Gil Dekel.
Interview conducted over the phone on 30 Aug 2010. Neale in based in the USA. Gil is based in The UK. Humanity’s Team website.